Speaker 1 00:00:03 We were putting it on credit cards just to survive and we weren't living large. We did really feel like we had failed. We felt like nothing. We do works
Speaker 2 00:00:16 From money fit by DRS. It's the money fit show. Your weekly pod asked about real difficult money stories, overcoming financial obstacles and tips for building healthy money habits. I'm Todd Christensen, host of the money fit show podcast. On today's episode, how would you feel about having no construction experience at ending a two day lecture about building a log home and then spending the next three and a half years building one throw in a story of three job losses in nine months, $50,000 of debt and oh yeah. Four kids in a 33 foot travel trailer. Please stick around. We're gonna need a bigger episode.
Speaker 2 00:01:06 Rachel Murphy has worked with young people for almost 25 years as a youth director, a foster parent, a mentor to young adults, and is a mom to five children, ages eight to 24. Throughout the years, she became aware of how many teens are lacking easily taught life skills that would help them as they launch out on their own. Her family started the raising confident teens podcast to help teach life and leadership skills to teens and their parents. The main host of the podcast, Rachel is also the author of the newly released book. I am not your ATM great title, a practical plan for teaching your team to manage money. Rachel Murphy. It is my pleasure to welcome you to the money fit show.
Speaker 1 00:01:52 Oh, thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 2 00:01:54 I'm I'm looking forward to this, uh, this conversation I do wanna get, uh, at some point to, uh, talking about what you're doing with both your, your podcast a bit and, and with the book, but, um, I wanna talk about your journey. Um, first though, speaking of the, the beginning of your journey, did you ever think in the years gone by that you would be an author or even a, or a podcaster?
Speaker 1 00:02:20 Oh, no way. No way. I was incredibly shy Uhhuh. Um, in kindergarten I cried every day. I didn't, I didn't want to be around people. <laugh> um, I'm, I'm an introvert actually. Yeah. I've, I've learned to extrovert. Um, but it, you know, it's
Speaker 2 00:02:39 Extrovert is a verb now.
Speaker 1 00:02:40 <laugh> I like it. Yeah. Uh, I've gotten more comfortable with talking to people. Yeah. And I like it a lot more. Um, but in the early days I never would've seen this because I just, I was just so shy.
Speaker 2 00:02:54 What, what about writing? Were you, did you like to write then? A lot of introverts liked writing,
Speaker 1 00:02:58 But no, I don't like that either. <laugh>, um, I'm good at it, but it, it was nothing that I really like liked to do. I, I, wasn't one of those people that would just sit down and write stories and stuff. Um, I, I am more into carpentry actually. I like to build furniture.
Speaker 2 00:03:14 Oh, well, I wanna talk about that too, cuz uh, I know part of your story involves, uh, building, uh, let me, um, let me say this. I did read, let me ask you this. I didn't read that you wanted, when you were young, you wanted to be ventriloquist
Speaker 1 00:03:29 <laugh> yeah, that's crazy. That's funny because I told you I was an introvert. Right. <laugh> um, but I
Speaker 2 00:03:35 Took deflecting the, the, even, even your own voice, huh?
Speaker 1 00:03:39 Yeah. I took all kinds of classes when I was a little kid. Um, self-taught classes, they'd mail 'em to me in the mail and I take 'em. Oh cool. And I was pretty good at it and I'd do it occasionally for like the kids at church, but I was just so shy even then, like I could not overcome the shyness part to get up in front of people.
Speaker 2 00:03:57 Well maybe someday.
Speaker 1 00:03:58 Yeah. I was,
Speaker 2 00:03:59 You do it on the, on the, on the, uh, radio or on the, on the podcast, but I'm not sure if that's quite possible.
Speaker 1 00:04:04 Yeah. <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:04:06 Okay. So you do have this broken podcast. I wanna speak about, uh, but first, uh, let's talk about this journey, uh, to what you and, and your husband Keith, right? Right. You've created your life that you've created and things that have done. Could we go back a few years maybe before, even you moved to California, you guys owned a tech company of some sort. Right.
Speaker 1 00:04:28 Right. We owned a local internet service provider here in Florida
Speaker 2 00:04:32 And this was during, uh, or, uh, what timeframe?
Speaker 1 00:04:36 Late nineties. So right when the internet was becoming popular for buddy.
Speaker 2 00:04:41 All right. So you guys own a tech company in what has become known as of course the tech bubble. Um, and, and how did that, I mean, what was your, let me ask before how, how it went, what was your kind of goal? What was your goal? What was your hopes? Uh, what were your hopes with that, uh, owning that company?
Speaker 1 00:04:58 You know, that's a good question. Um, <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:05:00 I mean, what is your hope achieve? What did, what did you, were you hope it would, it would make you the, it just, it wast money or
Speaker 1 00:05:06 Lifestyle
Speaker 2 00:05:07 Or who knows?
Speaker 1 00:05:08 We were really young and I was just going along for the ride back then. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, I think my, my husband loves to be self-employed mm-hmm <affirmative> and loves to build things on his own, you know? And <affirmative>, I think that was probably a big driver behind it and because he was really interested, he, he got his first computer when he was 13, I think mm-hmm <affirmative> and, you know, building computers throughout high school and worked in the computer lab at college and he just loved all things, computers. So I think he saw this coming and he knew it was a big thing and he wanted to be a part of it.
Speaker 2 00:05:45 Cool. Yeah. A lot of, lot of that is just, uh, uh, learning and testing and, uh, testing your own boundaries and, uh, that's cool. So, so how did, how did that start and how did it go?
Speaker 1 00:05:58 Um, well, it was very expensive to start because equipment was a lot more expensive back then. Mm-hmm <affirmative> than it is now. And it just didn't grow very fast and we were spending more money than we were making. Mm-hmm <affirmative> pretty much the whole time we went, uh, we had it a couple years and near the end there, uh, he, he, he just had to get other jobs and work another full-time job, and then we would work, you know, I'd answer the phone during the day and he'd work, you know, in snatches a lunch break or mm-hmm <affirmative> when he came home, um, in the evening. So we, it was pretty much our, our full-time. We had a, he had a full-time job and then we had another full-time and a half job <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:06:44 Yeah. Yeah. What, uh, uh, I mean, what was it that you just weren't making enough money? Um, did you, did you supplement your, your living your, of any expenses with, uh, with any loans or debt credit card debt? Or did you use that to start up the company or, cause I know you'd mentioned you, you had to deal with some debt at, at one point,
Speaker 1 00:07:08 Right? Yeah. We got into huge credit card debt because of this, we were mm-hmm <affirmative> we were putting it on credit cards just to survive and we weren't like live and large. We weren't going out to eat. We weren't, we were just trying to, to live right. Try to pay the bills.
Speaker 2 00:07:20 Yeah. I mean, bills take money and if you, you ain't got it right. Gotta get it from somewhere. Well, what lessons? I mean, this is so, you know, some people say, well, you, you failed. I mean, what, what lessons did you take away from that experience? You and Keith? Both.
Speaker 1 00:07:37 Yeah. We did feel like feeling years for a long time. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, we, we, we actually sold that business. Um, so it wasn't a complete total failure. I mean, somebody saw enough worth in it to buy it, but, um, we still had $50,000 in personal debt. Um,
Speaker 2 00:07:53 Don't tell me, it's count now called Cox, right?
Speaker 1 00:07:55 <laugh> uh, no, no, that's one
Speaker 2 00:07:58 Huge, big, huge service providers. Okay, good.
Speaker 1 00:08:01 Um, it was another local, bigger company. Yeah. That bought us out. Um, and then after that, we, uh, we moved to California cuz we were trying to find work and Keith, uh, went through three layoffs in nine months during the.com crash mm-hmm <affirmative> and every, every lay was a big pay cut. Each time you'd find another job. It didn't pay as well. And then you'd get laid off again and then you'd find another job. <laugh> drop the as well. And by the last company nobody was hiring mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so, um,
Speaker 2 00:08:36 Did you get out there right as the bubble at the end of 99, 2000, so or so 2001 even.
Speaker 1 00:08:44 Yeah, it was, it was trying to remember our little guy was four. He was born in 97, so yeah.
Speaker 2 00:08:51 2001. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:08:52 Yeah. Cause then we drove back, we packed up the U-Haul, um, and drove back across the country, September 11th, um,
Speaker 2 00:09:04 2001,
Speaker 1 00:09:05 2001.
Speaker 2 00:09:06 Uh, I think most of us, uh, that were, that, that have memories that far or that old know where we were that day.
Speaker 1 00:09:12 Yeah. It was, it was a bad day all around. It was a bad day for us. It was a bad day for the country. Um,
Speaker 2 00:09:19 We had just were seen the radio or how did you,
Speaker 1 00:09:22 It was, yeah, we were listening to the radio. What? Not too much. We have a little kid in the car. Oh yeah. Um, but um, the streets for dessert, it was like an apocalyptic movie.
Speaker 2 00:09:32 Sure.
Speaker 1 00:09:33 Um, uh, actually we had just flown in. We, we had been in China the day before. Um, we had a trip already planned. My parents, uh, did poverty relief work there for like 20 years mm-hmm <affirmative> and so we had already had a trip plan to go see them and we'd already bought the tickets. So we had gone ahead and uh, flown out there and we flew back September 10th. So we almost didn't make it back. Oh yeah. And um, we couldn't sleep that night cuz we were in California. So we're several hours behind New York. Correct. Um, and then, so we turned on the TV cuz we couldn't sleep and we saw all that happening. So it was like, yeah. So like our world was falling up part pretty much.
Speaker 2 00:10:18 Yeah. You've gone through, I mean you, you had to sell the baby. I mean what, what you built that to I P and then the, the, just the cost and the headache of moving cross country, cuz you moved from Florida to CA California. Right, right, right. I mean that's not easy and you had a little three year old or a, a four, three or four year old at the time. Right. And then nine months of, of really frustration, uh, frustrating, um, employment experience before you start heading back.
Speaker 1 00:10:50 Yeah. So we, we did really feel like we had failed. Like we felt like we can't do anything. Nothing we do works. Yeah. And so we went through a real period of like, um, Keith drove a cab for like six years Uhhuh <affirmative> uh, cuz he just didn't wanna put himself out there anymore. Um,
Speaker 2 00:11:12 It's a risk. I mean it's it's you are, you're putting yourself out there. You're let somebody else take a shot at you. Be you felt like,
Speaker 1 00:11:19 Yeah. So we were, you know, we were not living up to our potential because we had just felt so crushed and, and during that time we'd also had a miscarriage. And so we were, we were dealing with a lot.
Speaker 2 00:11:33 So financially, physically, I mean just emotionally, just all, all a all in a, in a very short period of time.
Speaker 1 00:11:41 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:11:42 Financially, what was, what was happening financially? I mean, how did you, what did you do, uh, in, in, back in, were you back in Florida?
Speaker 1 00:11:49 Yeah, we were back in Florida. We were house sitting. Uh, so that helped mm-hmm <affirmative> um, but for the, the, it took us five years to pay off that 50,000 in, in those five years we didn't make more than $30,000 a year mm-hmm <affirmative> so we were like raw in noodle, soup diet <laugh> so we drove a car that was like 1500 cost us $1,500. Uh <affirmative> um, it was a stick shift and I really couldn't drive stick shift, but I needed a car. So I taught, <laugh> taught my gotta learn. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:12:21 Um, and with a child in the car.
Speaker 1 00:12:23 Yeah. And so then we, you know, it was really tight. I remember, you know, looking, thinking back to the budget back then, you know, I remember, you know, sometimes our, our monthly budget for entertainment, you know, our dining out entertainment budget, a dollar seven, cuz we got a red box movie, you know,
Speaker 2 00:12:42 A dollar seven for, and that was for the, the, the month or the week
Speaker 1 00:12:45 For the month. Right? The,
Speaker 2 00:12:47 For the month, Dollar seven. Yeah. Well, uh, with the tax, right.
Speaker 1 00:12:53 <laugh> yeah.
Speaker 2 00:12:55 Okay. So a lot of people going through that with that much debt, you had to have thought about bankruptcy.
Speaker 1 00:13:02 Yeah. Yeah. We did.
Speaker 2 00:13:04 Were people telling you just file for bankruptcy, get it, get it over with,
Speaker 1 00:13:07 Well, we went round and round on this topic. Um, yeah, we, we would go and talk to people that were, we respect, you know, people that were our parents' age, um, pastors, different people and, and just say, what do you think we should do? This is what's going on. And pretty much all of them told us to declare bankruptcy. Right. And we were at the point right at the point where we were about to, we, we had an appointment with a lawyer and I don't know, I just, I didn't feel right about it. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and I don't, and that's not a judgment on anybody that's done that because I totally understand the stress and the wanting to be free, you know? Yeah. In that situation. But I just didn't feel like we were supposed to, and we have a deal and our family, if one of us isn't comfortable with the direction we're going, we don't do it. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so, um, and I really, um, am thankful for Keith, cuz I know as a man Uhhuh, that pressure of finances is even more than it is for a woman. Um, but he was like, cuz I know he was really stressed out and overloaded, but he was like, okay, if you think we should need to pay this off, we'll do it. Um, so that's what we did.
Speaker 2 00:14:22 Well you must have, I mean that, yeah. I can understand being, being hard for both of you in that situation. Um, but you must have had the conversation about, okay, so if we're not gonna go down this, uh, path, which your family, friends, people from your church, I mean, it's not like they, they, you were, you would've done it. And people just said, well, but you shouldn't have done that cuz they're all telling you. Right. But you must have had that conversation about, okay, we're not gonna go down this path. We're gonna have to make these kind of sacrifice, these kind of changes or these kind of, we're gonna have to do this, this and that. And it's not gonna be easy.
Speaker 1 00:14:59 Right.
Speaker 2 00:14:59 Do you remember some of those discussions or what are some of the things that you just said, you guys decided, you know, we we're gonna have do this for this, this, this long and we're just gonna have to sacrifice this or that or the other,
Speaker 1 00:15:12 You know, I never really, I don't remember those conversations. We probably had them. It was more of like, you know, sometimes they say don't think about the, how mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know, you get all up into the house and you get stuck. Right. You just say you're gonna do it and you'll figure out a way. I kinda think that's what happened. Um <affirmative> and we'd, we'd been kinda used to living pretty freely cuz we were trying not to get into all the debt to start with. Right. Uh, we just kept it going
Speaker 2 00:15:44 For parents of young kids. Parents want to give their kids the best life possible that can sometimes feel like, you know, how are we supposed to, you know, we wanna be able to, um, let our, our child do this, that and the other, be able to provide this for them and that for them. Do you remember those kind of feelings or those kind of situations?
Speaker 1 00:16:08 Um, well our it's a lot easier for kids are a little mm-hmm <affirmative> is my thought on that. Um, cuz they're not gonna remember as much and they don't need as much mm-hmm <affirmative> uh, you know, they don't need a big first birthday party. They don't need lots of toys, you know, hand downs. They can wear hand downs. Mm-hmm <affirmative> uh, we live in Florida, so they pretty much just work t-shirt and Ady um, you know, I get that. You, you feel like you're not being a good parent, but kids mostly just need love and a safe environment mm-hmm <affirmative> and they don't need as much as you think they do. And I'm not saying that this is something I think people should do for long periods of time. You know, we were focused
Speaker 2 00:16:57 It for everybody.
Speaker 1 00:16:58 Right. Yeah. And, and we knew this wasn't a permanent situation. We knew we're gonna have to do this for a few years, but it it's one thing, if you think you're gonna have to do it for the rest of your life and another, if you like can see the end.
Speaker 2 00:17:14 Okay. So now that, that brings me to this question that how did you know, or, or when did you get to the point that you realized it wasn't gonna be the rest of your life? I mean it, because it's, it's so easy to feel beaten down and, and say, you know, this is what life's thrown at me and this is what I'm always gonna be.
Speaker 1 00:17:30 Right. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:17:32 How did you guys address that? How did you keep, keep, keep at it? I guess.
Speaker 1 00:17:39 Yeah. It's uh, I think for us it was a gradual, I mean our, our story took years. I mean, it took us years to dig out, but I don't think it, I think it could have gone a lot faster. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, and I think a lot of that was our mindset, uh, how we didn't believe in ourselves mm-hmm <affirmative> and some of that was fixed by just getting out and doing stuff and trying things and um, learning about failure and seeing that it wasn't a reflection on you as a person, when you fail, it's more of a learning experience and you just figure out other ways to do things Uhhuh <affirmative>. Um, uh, we've been paying it down the whole time. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so, uh, we went through consumer credit counseling of Atlanta back back then and they were really good about just, you know, they don't, they, they make deals where you don't have to pay all the interest and you know, so it didn't feel as overwhelming.
Speaker 1 00:18:42 Right. And you know, you have to make the commitment. You're not gonna get into any more debt when you go into one of those programs. So that was, that was good. Yeah. Um, <affirmative> so, so it, it wasn't a, all of a sudden we realized, you know, it, it was more for us. It was a gradual, um, it was a gradual process. And I think that we had to get tired enough of where we were at, even though we'd been through all the bad stuff. And you would say that was the rock bottom, I think, um, mentally our rock bottom didn't come until we're just like, we can't keep living like this. You know, we got to go out there and do something different. And then he started, um, getting back into it. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know, I think it would be like for somebody you that, um, cannot see out of the situation they're in, maybe they're living in a low, um, low income neighborhood, they're working minimum wage jobs. Well, what's the plan, you know, can you go to school? Can you go to college and get a degree and make a better job, get a better job. Mm-hmm <affirmative> kind along those lines. You, you, you know, get, once you get a plan, it, it makes gives you hope <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:19:56 Okay. So you, you talked about not believing yourselves and you referred to that previously as not having no faith in yourself. So now you talk about hope and faith, right? Right. I mean, that, is that what you, you look back at the, the, the difficult times is that, or is there something else that you brought out of those years that you wouldn't give up for anything?
Speaker 1 00:20:21 Yeah. You know, we talk a lot about, oh, I never wanna go through that again, but I really do feel like it made us who we are. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and totally changed our perspective on life, on what we could comp like, you know, you dig out of a big challenge like that, and you're like, Woohoo, I did it. You know? <laugh> yeah.
Speaker 2 00:20:42 Yeah. Big pat on the back. <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:20:44 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:20:46 That, that, that, I mean, besides faith and hope and now you got confidence.
Speaker 1 00:20:50 Yeah. Yeah. Actually, I I've never thought about this until you just said that, but our, our third child that's her middle name is hope
Speaker 2 00:20:58 Really? Yeah. Born during that time.
Speaker 1 00:21:01 Yeah. Right. Uh, right after she was born is when we paid off the last. Um, <affirmative>
Speaker 2 00:21:08 Very
Speaker 1 00:21:08 Cool. That
Speaker 2 00:21:09 Nice. So it took about, did you say it was about five years,
Speaker 1 00:21:12 Right? Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:21:15 Okay. So you you're you're you're now debt, debt free. Are you still, are you still, um, house sitting or are you got a place of your own at that point?
Speaker 1 00:21:25 No, we had moved, uh let's let me think. We had moved to, um, North Carolina, we got another job. Keith had gotten back into it and we'd moved to North Carolina at that time. Okay. So we were off on our own.
Speaker 2 00:21:42 All right.
Speaker 1 00:21:43 Doing a lot better.
Speaker 2 00:21:44 <laugh> and, and pretty, pretty soon you guys get the speaking of, of housing. You guys get the idea that you're gonna build something on your own, but it's not like habitat for humanity or you're gonna, you know, work with a builder. Can you tell us what, what your plans were, what you, what you did and maybe what you were thinking <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:22:04 <laugh> um, yeah, we wanted to build a log home. Um, we thought it would save us. My actually was the main reason we did it, which it didn't, but <laugh>, um, we had seen this of this guy who taught log home building. Um, and it was a two day class and we had no construction experience. Nobody in our family has ever been in construction and we decided let's just go to this class and see, see what he's talking about. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so we went to the class. We never no outside, no construction, really in the classes, it was all just him talk, them, talking to us. It was all lecture. Right. Um, and we're like, we get it done outta that. And we're like, huh? We could, we, we think we could do this. So about a year later we came home and bought land and started building a house.
Speaker 2 00:23:02 Okay. Back in Florida.
Speaker 1 00:23:03 Right in Florida. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:23:05 Okay. Are you, were you even in the carpentry then?
Speaker 1 00:23:08 No. No. That came later. I think I had built steps still for the, get the kids to get to the sink.
Speaker 2 00:23:15 Something you can sit on while you're working on the house. Right. <laugh> okay. So log home. Not a log cabin. I guess there's a difference, right? Well,
Speaker 1 00:23:22 It's, it's, it's bigger. Yeah. It was about 1600 square feet and
Speaker 2 00:23:28 It, it ha a log log home. I mean, you're gonna have walls, uh, flat walls on the inside. It's not rough.
Speaker 1 00:23:34 No, they were around all the way around.
Speaker 2 00:23:36 Oh. So you'd be able to, it was a
Speaker 1 00:23:37 Full log.
Speaker 2 00:23:38 Oh, wow. Okay. All right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:23:41 Not, not a kit. It wasn't a kit. We, uh, sorry. <laugh> my husband actually planted the trees when he was a little boy on his grandparents' land. Um, and their plan was to sell 'em for telephone poles. Yeah. 30 years in the future. Okay. So that's what we used.
Speaker 2 00:23:59 All right. So you, you, you use those poles, which cool sentimentally. That's awesome. Yeah. Um, how did it go? I mean, you went to full two days <laugh> yeah. Of coursework of lectures. How, what was, how did you know that you were in for something different? When, when did you, how quickly did you realize then what you had thought it might be
Speaker 1 00:24:22 That we were in over our head pretty quick. Um, it was pretty quick. Um, it was kind of just like you do what you can do today. Yeah. And deal with the other stuff tomorrow. Um, cuz there were so many challenges that came up that we're like, what do we do here? We don't know let's Google it. You know, mm-hmm <affirmative> and they had a forum, which you could get people to answer, answer questions if you needed. Right. Um, the, during this time Keith was actually working outta town. So he would leave outta town Sunday afternoon, noon, go back to work in Atlanta mm-hmm <affirmative> and then he would drive back home Friday night. So during, in the week, a lot of it, I, I worked on it by myself. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, with kids and we lived in a 33 foot travel trailer, which I don't advise anyone to do. If they have four
Speaker 2 00:25:20 Children, <laugh> four kids on site right there where you were building. Yeah. You had the land. You you're gonna live on
Speaker 1 00:25:26 It. It was very mode for me to get outta there and work on the house. Cause
Speaker 2 00:25:31 I
Speaker 1 00:25:31 Didn't
Speaker 2 00:25:31 Wanna be there. I need to build a, a, a that bonus room first. Get your kids outta here. <laugh> What about water? I mean, did you have electricity out there? Water?
Speaker 1 00:25:41 Yeah. Yeah. We had electricity in water.
Speaker 2 00:25:43 Okay. So you, you, how long did this process go on and, and who was all involved?
Speaker 1 00:25:50 It took about three and a half years. Um, me and my father-in-law did a lot of it. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and then, um, when my dad, my parents would come home once a year and they'd help. And then Keith, uh, would come home on the weekends and work mm-hmm <affirmative> um, it was slow. Some days we would work all day and only get one log up. Mm. We, we had to, cause not all our logs were perfectly straight. Right. So we had to like, sometimes we'd put 'em up there and be like that one's not gonna work there. It's not lining up. Right. So we'd have to take it down and we, we would pound rebar in it every foot, like <affirmative> it would go, it would go, it was every two feet, but it was every, it was, it was down through the log and then halfway through the first log. So it ended up being every foot mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, Yeah. So it was a very slow process and a lot of days I wanted to quit <laugh> yeah. But then nobody buys half-built lot homes. So yeah, I learned a that's that is where our lessons about failure and about resilience and about figuring things out really, really, um, or were learned by us. <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:27:06 Yeah. I mean, you, you you'd gone through several challenges previously in the last previous five years or 10 years. And, uh, did was the idea that, Hey, you know, we're, I mean, we're not, we're gonna see this through, no matter what, I mean, did you guys have that kind of conversation or did you just just know we're gonna, no matter how long it takes.
Speaker 1 00:27:29 Yeah. We knew we would do it. Like we never wanted to quit on the same day, which was a good thing. Like <laugh> I wanna,
Speaker 2 00:27:36 You didn't agree on the same days
Speaker 1 00:27:39 She, um, but I mean, we were stuck basically. I mean, who's gonna buy it. Yeah. So we had to figure it out.
Speaker 2 00:27:47 You and you started in involving your kids as well.
Speaker 1 00:27:51 Yeah. They helped, they helped all through the process. Our oldest was 13 and he would sometime he would help me a lot with like, I, I need to sand this down or I need to stain it or I gotta cut some wood, cut, some lumber on the table saw I need you to catch it. Um, he would lift me up and down on the forklift sometimes mm-hmm <affirmative> cause a lot of times it was just me and the kids there mm-hmm <affirmative> um, our, our next one was seven or eight when we were started. And uh, she would cook a lot, actually. She lived to cook mm-hmm <affirmative> um, and she'd help out with that. And then the younger two, they were two and four mm-hmm <affirmative> and they would, they would take all the scraps and build these amazing forts all through the yard <laugh> Um, but they
Speaker 2 00:28:43 Experience right.
Speaker 1 00:28:45 They have the craziest work ethic of any kids I have ever met. Like we, when we sawed the yard, they were probably six and seven Uhhuh somewhere around that. Um, and they worked all day. Have you ever sawed yard? It's exhausting. Mm-hmm <affirmative> they worked all day. They worked it out. They worked very well together. They worked at a out so that they would each carry one, one end of the piece. Right. And they, they worked all day long. Like they're used to working really, and we never made them do that. Like I'm not, I'm not into abuse or anything. Don't get me around. They just loved it. I think if you catch your kids at the right age where they see it as natural and fun, then, then you know, and don't wait until they're too old, then they more, more likely will enjoy it.
Speaker 2 00:29:41 Think I'm live in a 33 foot trailer until they get it built.
Speaker 1 00:29:45 <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:29:46 So, I mean, you, you talk about, I mean the name of your podcast, raising confident, uh, confident, confident teens, right? How does that, is, is that where this came from, where you, they, they were lessons that saw the kids learning on, on the, this build and uh, what I mean, besides just construction. I mean, how, what was involved with, with their, uh, starting that, that podcast, that thought?
Speaker 1 00:30:12 Yeah. I just, I just begin to notice, you know, a lot of teens, I, I see it in groups I'm in, or I just noticed that they just don't know how to do things. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and I noticed that, you know, when you teach a kid how to do something, they become more confident mm-hmm <affirmative> and it just changes their view of themselves. And um, so I felt like there was a connection between learning life skills and confidence. And so that's why we named it that, and then come to find out later, um, I was listening to Brenda ARD. He's a, he is like a leadership coach, pro productivity, um, guru guy mm-hmm <affirmative>. And he was talking about this thing. That is, is actually something that is real called the confidence competence loop. And it says, you know, when you teach somebody a skill, the more competent they become, the more confident they become mm-hmm <affirmative> and then the more confident they become, the more willing they are to try any other new skill.
Speaker 1 00:31:20 So then they gain more competence in something else. And the that makes them more confident and it just loops mm-hmm <affirmative> and I'm like, oh wow. I was onto something. And I didn't even know it. I was so excited when I found that out. Um, but think about it, like when you learn to drive, when you first learn to drive, you're so nervous, you have no confidence, you know, mm-hmm <affirmative> but you, you don't know where the blink, you can't remember how to turn the turn signal on, you know? Um, but then after you drive for a few years, you just, you just jump right in your car and you don't even think, right. What do I need to do here? You know, you have confidence in what you're doing and the more things that you can learn, um, the more confident you're gonna become.
Speaker 1 00:31:58 And I, and actually, I just, um, did a podcast with somebody a couple days ago and she was talking to be about brain development with teens. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, um, they there's something that occurs when they're going from childhood to adolescents called pruning, um, which I was not aware of. And it, and it like cuts it, trims off stuff in their brain. And, um, they start get, uh, you know, you hear about teens and they, how they're do crazy stuff. And they don't think, yep, they're they're craving more. Their brain is telling them, do more riskier things. Cuz it's trying to push them out to learn new skills, right. I'm like, oh, that connects too. I'm like, you know, they, they need to, they need to learn new skills. And if we don't, the more opportunities we give them, the less, they will be going out, searching for risky behaviors because they will get that dopamine from the, oh, I learned how to drive, you know? Yeah. I learned how to drive. I learned how to, um, go snowboarding, you know, or I learned something that, that fills that need, that they have mm-hmm <affirmative> um, to learn new things.
Speaker 2 00:33:13 That's really cool. I hadn't hadn't thought about that, that, uh, that, that impulse is the, the body, the brain's way of saying you gotta get out and take risks and, and learn something new and learn your, learn, your boundaries, learn boundaries.
Speaker 1 00:33:27 It's to get them outta your house really is what <laugh>. Cause if it
Speaker 2 00:33:31 Didn't like a true mom,
Speaker 1 00:33:32 They would never leave. You know, if they were never uncomfortable or they didn't wanna, you know, they're, they're separating from us and, and you know, more going more towards their friends. And a lot of parents feel that as a rejection, but it's, it's just the natural part of their brain is their brain is developing and telling them it's time to go out on your own. <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:33:52 Did, did, uh, did your kids have friends over while you were doing the build? Did you have friends on site?
Speaker 1 00:33:59 No, they were come out for the day, but there was nowhere to stick 'em at night <laugh> um,
Speaker 2 00:34:04 Would they help out or they just, uh, your, your kids was like, all right. My play day now,
Speaker 1 00:34:09 Uh, we would have work days, but yeah, but not, I mean that, and no, I didn't really, We would have like recruiting
Speaker 2 00:34:18 You weren't recruiting help
Speaker 1 00:34:20 Is a recruiting child labor. No, <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:34:23 What, uh, well, what, what are some of the lessons that you see your kids learn from that whole experience?
Speaker 1 00:34:31 How to solve problems?
Speaker 2 00:34:32 Hey, let's, let's build, let's build a log home, uh, uh, in their, in their, not even 10 years old, someone not even 10 years old or their teens. So what what'd you say? Uh,
Speaker 1 00:34:41 Problem solving that that was the main lesson. I think they learned like, if, if this doesn't work, what are we gonna do next? What's the plan B um, not giving up.
Speaker 2 00:34:56 So that's kinda involve for you as a parent, not solving the problems for them, then I'm assuming,
Speaker 1 00:35:02 Right? Yeah. I try and not to do that. I try to give them the option. <laugh> like, what do you think you should do here? Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:35:11 Um, have you seen any of that translate into, uh, uh, personal finance with them yet? They're the oldest still a teenager or,
Speaker 1 00:35:20 Yeah. Okay. Yeah. He's out on his own. Uh, actually the oldest two are out on their own Uhhuh. <affirmative>, uh, one's in college and then one is outta college and on his own nice. Um, we taught personal finance along the way because of what we had gone through. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, we decided we were gonna teach our kids differently cuz we felt like a lot of people in our generation, it, they just weren't taught about money by their parents or they were taught, but it didn't sink in mm-hmm <affirmative> like it was more a lecture style and it wasn't relevant. So nobody learned anything. Right. So we decided once, you know, we wanted to do things differently with them and go, you know, a lot of people do training for younger kids, you know, the giving, the spending, the saving envelopes mm-hmm <affirmative> and then there's nothing in between. It's kind of like, you know, when I teach my kids to drive, um, we start out in the parking lot. So that would be cons comparable to the giving saving, spinning envelopes. Right. And then we go to a subdivision, you know, and then we go to a less busy road and then we go to, uh, maybe in town and then we go on the interstate, you know, a lot of people, we
Speaker 2 00:36:38 Do the you're going, yeah, you're not going straight from the parking lot to the, uh, to the freeway.
Speaker 1 00:36:42 Right. We don't go. But, but the way we teach kids money, a lot of it is like, oh, we teach 'em, you know, we teach 'em how to count it. We teach 'em how to recognize it. We teach 'em you, you should save some and give some, and then we go from that to like, here's the Atlanta freeway at night in the, a rain, you know, like there's nothing in between. Yeah. And so we decide we're, we're gonna set it up so that they have to experience practical money lessons. So how we do that is we, when they get to be middle school, high school, we start turning over parts of the budget to them that are, that are relevant to them. You know, mm-hmm <affirmative>, if you, if you go for ICS once a week and mom pays, how about once a month? Just give them icy money and you know, let that be the first lesson they have. And then, you know, every year we'd add more categories and we raised them out. We weren't, we weren't really spending any more money than we would've otherwise we just were, were redirecting it. So they were the managers of it.
Speaker 2 00:37:39 Good idea. So tell me, uh, your book, uh, I am not your ATM, is this, uh, this has some of those ideas in it or that's what's based on
Speaker 1 00:37:49 Yeah, it's based on that. Um, it's based on just practically designing this plan on your, based on how you spend your money, you know, cuz everybody, every family's different, you know, mm-hmm <affirmative> you, you decide what you spend on your kids and you design this plan and that way they get to practice budgeting, they get to practice, you know, setting up different funds because you know, with the saving spend and giving envelopes, they, you know, they may save 10%, give 10% and then they pretty much get to blow the rest. Right. There is no lesson about what about things I have to get, you know, it's all fun money, which is not how much works. Right. We don't get to blow, you know, 80 or 90% of our money.
Speaker 2 00:38:35 We wish.
Speaker 1 00:38:36 So they, they get to learn like, oh, I, I need to buy, you know, I need to buy some clothes. You know, I need to make sure I have enough money and not spend it all. You know? Um, they, they get the lessons of how do I reconcile my account and how do I handle, um, what does this bank statement mean? So, so it become, you know, it all becomes a lesson. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:39:00 Um, so if they're gonna fail, they're gonna fail in the home where they have a backup,
Speaker 1 00:39:04 Right. Where it's safe. Cause you know, they're not gonna ask if they get out on their own, they're not gonna ask their friends, Hey, how do you do a budget or <laugh>, you know, how do I do this?
Speaker 2 00:39:14 I love that idea of, of, uh, giving them money to, to spend on something that you were gonna spend on anyway.
Speaker 1 00:39:21 Right. They love the control.
Speaker 2 00:39:23 Yeah. I mean, I
Speaker 1 00:39:24 Was teenagers, love control
Speaker 2 00:39:25 Eighth grade, my parents, I was the youngest of, of eight kids. My parents started that with me in eighth grade and said, okay, here's your, uh, clothing stipend instead of back to school. So like they didn't spend anything on me for back to school. It was like, here's what you get every single month. That was pretty modest. And um, and that fir <laugh> that first month, um, I spent it on, I spent it on music, Uhhuh <affirmative> and uh, I had $5 left. This was, this was my, I can, uh, I don't wanna say when it was, it was a few decades ago and I, I, my shoes were those flop, the fronts were just F flopping. The, there was nothing left to the toes. Right. And I, I showed my parents and their answer was probably exactly what sounds like you would say like, Hey, what are you gonna do about it? Right.
Speaker 2 00:40:18 And so I went back down and found the only pair of $5 shoes in the store. And they were bright, shiny silver, basically moon, like moon boots, except just shoes. And, uh, that's you know what, thank heavens. They had raised me with confidence because I had to show up school in those and wear 'em for a few months. But, uh, I learned that was, that was a very quick, uh, and practical lesson I learned for the rest of my life. Yeah. Just spend it on something that, uh, don't, you can't spend all your money on something that, um, on, on fun, you gotta have something for the future.
Speaker 1 00:40:50 Yeah. And, and it was a lot safer for you to learn that lesson at all. Yeah. Than, you know, running up a $10,000 credit card bill once you got out. Sure.
Speaker 2 00:40:58 Yeah. And this was before duct tape. I mean, <laugh>, I've just kinda got a thing of duct tape and wrapped it around my shoes if they had been around. But yeah. Uh, Rachel, can, can we talk about, uh, as we, as we finish off here, it's I appreciate you being so open about your journey and, and sharing all this good information. Can you share, is there a one piece of, uh, practical and you would give either to parents or for, uh, or adults or, or kids, whatever you'd like when it comes to
Speaker 1 00:41:26 Yeah, this, this is something that I wish I had learned earlier as an adult, um, get one month ahead with your money. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so a lot of people, they, um, they pay this much ex expenses with this month's pay. Right.
Speaker 1 00:41:48 And you need to build it up so you can pay this month month's expenses with a last month's pay. Right. Cause if you pay your bills and you got a dollar left in your account, then you're gonna be stressed out all the time. Oh yeah. Um, pick up an extra job, sell some stuff, babysit, do whatever you can to give yourself that cushion so that you can get one month ahead and then forget that you have the money to, you know, don't be trying to dip into it and oh, I know I have extra. Right. Um, just forget this there, having that margin will help you just relax And not be so stressed.
Speaker 2 00:42:27 So it's a, it's a, a different version of, uh, the advice of having a, uh, se several months or a month or two or three of emergency funds that you could dip into if you lost your job or if you something happened in the house that you needed to replace.
Speaker 1 00:42:44 Right. I think this is more, yeah. I, I, I still have an emergency
Speaker 2 00:42:48 For bills only.
Speaker 1 00:42:49 Yeah. I just, cause it's just that way. I see so many people like, well, I'm getting paid on this day and I gotta, and they gotta juggle it, like
Speaker 2 00:42:57 True,
Speaker 1 00:42:59 True. It's just to kind of give you a cushion to like, just relax and realize, you know, it can be part of your, you know, you can be working on other things at the same time, you can be working on emergency fund at the same time, but just try and get something in that account so that you're not, and then you can avoid, you know, overdrafts, if you have a problem with that.
Speaker 2 00:43:19 No, that's huge. That's a great idea. Yeah. So, because I guys, I mean, I've worked with working with the family right now. That's been able to do that in the last year and a half and it wasn't something they did overnight, but, uh, it's been made a huge difference to them.
Speaker 1 00:43:32 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:43:34 Uh, can, if our listeners, where can our listeners find you online, Rachel, your, your, uh, your podcast or, or your book or, or anywhere else?
Speaker 1 00:43:44 Sure. Um, I've set up a special page just for listeners. If you go to Rachel Murphy, coaching.com/money fit, um, you'll be able to see a link to our podcast. Um, my book is on there. I'll have, uh, some free resources, some books. I recommend finance books. I recommend for teens. Um, if you, if you like my idea of, oh yeah. I would really like to start turning over stuff to my kids. I have a little spending tracker on there that you can print out and just start keeping track of where your money's going when you spend it on your kids. That way you have an idea of how much you should give them in a budget.
Speaker 2 00:44:24 Yeah. Good. I'm gonna, I'm definitely gonna put, uh, those links on our, uh, in our show notes. So, uh, to my listeners, please check those out below, uh, Rachel Murphy. Thank you for your time today. We certainly appreciate you. You joining me and sharing your story. Oh, thank you, Todd. I had a great time to the listeners. Thank you for joining us as well. We appreciate you. Uh, do check out our podcast
[email protected] slash podcast, and do click on the subscribe button below. We do appreciate you following us and until the next time, please stay money fit and stay well.
