Speaker 1 00:00:03 I just started reading like voraciously while I was unemployed and I wanted to create a more robust life. So I would hopefully be able to withstand if this were to happen to me again, I'd be a little more resilient
Speaker 2 00:00:19 From money for it by DRS. It's the money fit show your weekly podcast about real difficult money stories, overcoming financial obstacles and tips for building healthy money habits. On today's episode, I speak with an actuary who is fired, started house hacking while unemployed, and now owns more than 10 rental units across three states. I'm Todd Christensen, host of the money fit show podcast. And I hope you'll stick around to hear lessons. He learned that we could all use. I'll have what he's having Jack
Speaker 1 00:00:57 All while is an
Speaker 2 00:00:58 Avid reader, math
Speaker 1 00:01:00 And soccer fan he's on a journey to find the intersection of his actuarial background and love for personal finance through self-directed mini projects. He loves talking about his house hacking, which we're gonna get into today and all about personal finance, uh, Jack all while welcome to the money fit show. Thanks so much, Todd. It's it's great to be on here. Hey Jack. Okay. I've I have not interviewed an actuarial before. I don't even know if I've spoken with, with one before, but let me ask you this. Did you always want to be an actuarial? So I did not always wanna be an actua. I didn't even know what one was until probably my last year in college. Now, I, I was a, a math major in undergrad and it's kind of crazy that I didn't really know of them, um, because there was an actuarial science program at my school mm-hmm <affirmative> and one of my frat brothers got me to take a night class.
Speaker 1 00:01:57 It was interest theory talking about interest rates and uh, time value you a money type of things. Then, uh, I, I really got into it and it was taught by an actuary. So he was an actuary by day and taught this class by night. And it, it seemed like a good route for me because I, I was not, I, I was pretty quiet. And what, one of the, the things about this track was as long as you passed the exams, it seemed like you were pretty solid to get a job. Mm-hmm <affirmative> if they didn't there, there wasn't like a big like networking component, I guess, or at least I, I didn't perceive it that way. And I, I felt like I had neglected some of the networking and I, I really liked this class and thought, you know, I I'd give it a shot and I take the first exam now there's and they keep adding exams.
Speaker 1 00:02:46 I, I just passed my last one, like the end of 2020. Um, and I took my first one in 2010, so it took me a long time to get through 'em all. And there were eight exams when I started, I, I think they've added one on now, but yeah, it's, it's a very difficult road and, um, yeah, a lot of, lot of practice. Well, I I've heard it's one of the, one of the, the best, uh, highly rated careers for people who, uh, go into math. I mean, it's, and I, and I just heard about it about 15 years ago, myself, it, it definitely caught, um, some traction. It, it kept ranking very well in the life balance or work life balance on like those Yahoo lists and things, and yeah. Um, that, that's kinda where a lot of people started hearing about it. And now there there's more competition and more people are taking the exams and mm-hmm, <affirmative>, that's become a little more cutthroat <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:03:40 Okay. Well, okay. So, uh, I'm gonna ask the question that a lot of, uh, uh, my listeners, uh, are gonna ask that I would've asked a few years ago. What, uh, can you gimme a simple de definition of what an actuary does? Sure. So a lot of times it's dealing with uncertainty and cash flows into the future. So there's a lot of modeling of uncertainty. So it's projecting cash flows into the, into the future. It, it could be dealing with life insurance, so you're modeling using mortality tables. So mm-hmm, <affirmative>, you know, how, and, and, and then there's also a component of discounting it to the present. And a, a lot of, I'd say a large majority of a act work for insurance companies currently. And a lot of it involves either pricing the products or, um, valuing the reserve. So in, in terms of putting a number on how much the company should hold in reserves to pay out the future claims whether it's life insurance or annuity payments, mm-hmm, <affirmative> any sort of, of guaranteed features.
Speaker 1 00:04:42 So it's kind of like glorified budgeter. You could think of it as <laugh> yeah. On a, on a much larger scale than personal or household. A lot of, lot of, uh, taking into account, uh, risk factors and, and, uh, future possibilities. And, yeah. Interesting. It's really interesting for those who love data, I assume. Yeah. Well, okay. So I, you know, I don't, I, I just wanted to, to, to put it out there and what that, what an actuary does, but I, uh, I'd like to talk to you a little more about, um, uh, some of the things you do as far as, uh, personal finance and how, and your, uh, wanna get to what, what you call house hacking, but let's, let's go back. Uh, if we could, uh, a few years, uh, 2016, you're, you're employed as an actu, right? Yep. And, uh, something happens that day that, uh, changed, changed the, at least part of the direction, direction of part of your life.
Speaker 1 00:05:34 Right? Uh, absolutely. What, what, what was, uh, what was a big deal about 2016 for you? So, so I moved down to no North Carolina in 2015, and I had, I would say trouble adjusting in trouble, staying balanced in my life with school, with, uh, studying work and then social life mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, and in 2016, I unfortunately lost my job and I, I could kind of feel it coming. Um, I, I had failed an exam, an actuarial exam, and I just felt like dejected a little depressed. I felt like my work product, it, it was the, the failures on the exams were spilling over into my, into my work product. And I unfortunately got, let go at the end of 2016. And it was really kind of, I, I guess I would call it my great reset mm-hmm <affirmative>, um, just gave me some time.
Speaker 1 00:06:26 And I mean, luckily I had cheap rent at the time because I, I might have been in trouble, but I, I had cheap rent and I decided to take a trip to Europe to see where my grandparents grew up in like Poland and hungry. And I, oddly enough, met my now wife in Vienna, Austria, huh. On that trip. So, so you lose your job and you said, okay, I'm, I'm leaving the country for a little bit. Is that, is that, I mean, that was pretty much it it's, you know, it's not advantage of the time traditional thinking, but, uh, I mean a lot of times, yeah. When I was working, I would always think, man, if I just had the time to go do this stuff and then, and then all of a sudden, well, I, I do have the time, so I'd kind of be a hypocrite not to.
Speaker 1 00:07:10 And, and I, but like I said, I, I had, um, pretty cheap rent at the time I was living in this community where we kind of, we, we got subsidized housing to throw events for, um, young adults mm-hmm <affirmative> um, so it was kind of unique situation. So I kind of had a part-time job almost. I mean, my, my rent ended up being like 4, 4 50 a month, I think, at the time. Wow. Yeah. So there must, you must have been in a, put yourself in a position that, uh, mean personal finance wise, that you were able to even consider that that's, like you said, that's not the traditional reaction to that kinda situation. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I had, I had very much appreciated how much the living expense in a traditional person's life is. I mean, it can off times be now 34, 50% sometimes.
Speaker 1 00:08:00 And when I first moved to Charlotte, I was spending I think, $1,300 with all the utilities and I, I was studying so much, I didn't really get to, to appreciate, or, uh, have fun with some of the amenities there. So I just figured, I mean, this is just a waste, I need to, um, find something that's a little more con inducive to how much I'm studying right now. Were, were, were there some, um, habits or mindsets that you developed yourself or that you kind of inherited from a family, a parent that, that had you kind of thinking this way that, you know, I, I don't wanna be wasteful or I, I, cuz you basically were preparing for the future, you knew that you didn't need to be spending all that money. Um, you know, there, I, I would say I came from a family. We did not really discuss finances a whole lot.
Speaker 1 00:08:50 Mm-hmm <affirmative> I don't know if it's on the, the up trend with families, but it, it was not a con a typical conversation. I did not know a lot about my parents' finances and, um, but I remember early on my mom would let us ride our bikes to the bank, even if we had just a couple dollars in change and we could go, she showed us how to, you know, deposit that money and do a bank account. Yeah. Um, so, so we, we did have some stuff and they, they were encouraging us to kind of be a little more entrepreneurial. Like my mom would go buy us, um, like these candies at like Sam's club in bulk and we could sell them at school <laugh> right, right. We got, we, we, we got in trouble for this, but the, a principal a couple times, but, um, <laugh> but, but it was kind of things like that, that I kind of do think they, they helped us, um, learn.
Speaker 1 00:09:44 Yeah. Got some, uh, entrepreneurship and initiative. That's good. Yeah. Okay. So you, you, you lose your job. You head to Europe, you, you meet your future wife, which is, I think cool. And, uh, hopefully sharing that on a podcast appropriate for, for that. But I think that's great. What, uh, were some resources, were there people or service app that, that kind of got you through? I don't know how long you were there, but that you used while you were there to pay rent or to, to take care of your finances back home even. Well, I, I, I, luckily when I got fired, I think I had about $15,000 saved at the time. So I, I actually, wasn't too concerned about rent. I only went to Europe for two weeks. So this was not like eight weeks, eight. Yeah. It was not a four months or a year and a half.
Speaker 1 00:10:30 It was not an extended period of time. Now I was unemployed about six months. Um, the, the one thing that really touched me, well there, I mean, other than me, my now wife, but, um, when I visited the Auschwitz concentration camp outside of CRO O now my grandfather grew up in CRO O yeah. And, um, luckily he fled before the war started and the Nazis took over. I just, I had so many questions and I, I was never a big reader going into that trip, but I just started reading about world war II and, um, that kind of trickled over into reading more about, um, personal finance. And I, I read a lot of soccer books. I, I just started reading like veraciously, mm-hmm <affirmative> while I was a unemployed. And one of the things that kind of stuck out was I just wanted to take a little more responsibility for my life and I wanted to create a more robust life.
Speaker 1 00:11:31 So I would hopefully be able to withstand I, if this were to happen to me again, I'd be a little more resilient. So I, I decided I wanted to buy a house as soon as I got another job and I wanna rent out the other rooms okay. To cut my living expense to as little as possible. So something like this wouldn't affect me so much. So you, you, you say a robust life mm-hmm <affirmative> are, are, are you talking just personal finance or are you, was it more, uh, a wider definition than that? Or you just wanted to be set for financially when, when something like this happened? If that, not to, I mean, I'd say predominantly like finding, but I also took, there was another book called early retirement extreme mm-hmm <affirmative> that goes through a lot of like personal, I would call it, uh, personal economics, not just personal finance.
Speaker 1 00:12:23 He talks a lot about, um, instead of outsourcing so much of your life's activities, just to, to become more of a generalist, become pretty good at a lot of things. And mm-hmm, <affirmative> like, it could be just like cooking more on your own, like saving on food that way, but you're like, um, becoming a better cook. And also another thing I did was, um, I kind of like just watched a lot of YouTube videos on how to like build certain things. So when I, I did buy, uh, the house, one of the summers, I actually put a calisthenics park in the back, so I theoretically wouldn't need a gym membership. Right. Um, so, so things like that, um, this was in Charlotte, right? This is in Charlotte. Yep. So is there not, not, uh, too terribly cold in the winter, right, exactly. Yeah. Um, so, so, but, but I I'd say when I say robust, I I'd say mostly.
Speaker 1 00:13:17 Yeah. Just finances, I guess. Got it. So you're, uh, you're starting to do all this reading and you're, you're you buy a home and did, how long did it take you before you started renting out rooms? How many rooms, how did it go? I mean, what was your early experie people are, are really, uh, I mean, actuaries talk about risk. I mean, that seems like a risk for a lot of people. Like, I don't want strangers in my home, or I don't know if they're gonna pay on time. How do you get 'em out if they don't pay? Yep. How was your, what was your experience like early on? Yeah, so I started house hacking in 2017. I got out a house that was, it was about to go into foreclosure. It's a little outside of I, the uptown area of Charlotte, probably 50 minutes to uptown.
Speaker 1 00:14:05 Um, and I guess one thing that probably deterred a lot of people was it, it had a pool in the back and it was like jet black. Like, you couldn't see the bottom very dirty, but, but in my mind, I'm like it was a pool. It was a pool and not a, a, an oil rig or something that right. <laugh>. Yeah. But I, I guess if, if I, if I'm gonna be living here and thinking as like a renter, I mean, I, I, I like having a pool. I know a lot of people would think of it as a huge liability, but at the time I thought, yeah, it's a, it's a great idea. Um, and it'll be a little more attractive going up against some of these other rental places. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, so I got a four it's, a four bedroom, three and a half bath, and I actually used a loan from my 401k to help with the down payment.
Speaker 1 00:14:54 Um, and that was kind of how I went about the financing. The mm-hmm <affirmative>, the, there was a couple, there was one room that had no door. So I put a, a new door on and I actually put individual locks on each of the bedrooms. Mm-hmm <affirmative> just so people, could you a little more secure? Sure. So that was another thing. And then when I did the screening, um, of the tenants I would use, there was a, a website called my smart move. And you can basically just put in the email address of the potential tenant and they'll get a link to sign in and put their, their vital information. So you, you, as the landlord, aren't getting to see any vital information, but you get a background and credit report sent to you. And I think that helps will help me feel comfortable with the people moving in.
Speaker 1 00:15:43 And I think it helped the, the tenants too, because they understand that I'm putting all the tenants through this. So they they've all been screened. And, yeah, that was kind of ear early on. I'd say it took about, um, probably three months, three or four months from when I first moved in to run out the other three rooms. Okay. That's not too bad. No, but you, yeah. How long before you, you had that first, uh, that first, um, roommate, a room, a renter? Uh, I think, well, I, I think I actually kind of like went easy at first just because I was just trying to fix some things up. So I don't think I started looking until like a month and a half or two months. So I, I actually filled it pretty quick once I started looking for, for roommates. So you get three, three roommates, right?
Speaker 1 00:16:34 How, how much of that their rent covered your mortgage? So actually early on, I had it on a 30 year mortgage and, um, once it, it, and I, I think I was cash flowing, like just a little bit, like maybe a a hundred or so dollars, but what I actually did about a year into this process, I moved out of the master bedroom into one of the smaller rooms that shares a bathroom Uhhuh <affirmative>. And I was able to rent out the master for more and I refind and the, the house had appreciated, um, a, a good bit. So I actually put it on and the rents at the time were about 2300 a month. And I, I refinanced to get my principal interest taxes and insurance on a, on a 15 year. Where about 22? Nice 2200. Yeah. So, um, that's kind what it looked like now, I guess in high, like, I, I guess with the current environment, part of me feels like I, I wish I would've just maybe refinanced to a third year cuz I could always pay it down and it would maybe give a little more flexibility mm-hmm <affirmative> um, but yeah, it seemed like a good decision.
Speaker 1 00:17:52 And um, well what was, uh, did you have any, uh, any unexpected challenges early on in being a, a landlord in the, in your own home? Sure. Um, definitely that there, well, there's always like roommate dynamics you have to worry about, but there was, there was a month where, um, one of the tenants was supposed to be leaving at the end of the month mm-hmm <affirmative> and she ended up staying like four or five days into the next month. Right. And there was a, an abnormally large water bill that was due to a, a, a crack, um, like, like the piping or the, the line going from the street into the house. Right. And, um, I mean the, the, the water bill went up and, and the lease was that we would split all the utilities. And so basically by her staying in the extra four days, she kind of exposed was yourself to the next month.
Speaker 1 00:18:51 And I, I didn't ask them to fix any of the, the pipe going. And it was like a, that was like a $4,000 fix. Um, so I didn't, I didn't, I, I mean, they're not obligated to chip in for that, but, um, the, the water bill was a little higher. Um, now she on, she didn't really see it this same way. I was seeing it. So she actually, um, took me to like a mediation and I had never been part of this. Yep. So it, it was just, I was very worried and scared cuz I had never done it before. Um, but basically I just told her to not worry about the utilities she showed me and we just called it even. Um, she was also going through a lot of stress. I think her mom was in the hospital at the time. So there's just a lot of like stress going around and which I, I could get and understand.
Speaker 1 00:19:42 So I I'd say that that was like the, like the roughest part, but I I've had pretty good luck with my roommates. And I think that's Testament to screening on the, the front end. That, that sounds important. What would you say, would you say that there is, um, a surprising upside that you weren't expecting as, uh, to, to have roommates? What was something that, that you like? I, I, this was something I really enjoyed or I liked, or that has really been helpful to me. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, I don't know if I really would say I enjoyed, um, like, but I, I, I learned a lot about fixing the pool <laugh> because I was cleaning it, uh, vacuuming it myself. Um, so a lot of the, the daily maintenance early on I was doing, and then eventually I, I kind of got a hold of what it cost to run a pool and it was expensive.
Speaker 1 00:20:36 And plus I was having to, um, I, I didn't feel quite comfortable testing the water, so I would have to take a sample into the store, down the street, and then they would tell me what chemicals to put in mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, and they're probably incentivized to, you know, yeah. It to give you a little more chemicals than what you might really need. So once I understood how much I was spending on the pool, um, I kind of interviewed some pool cleaners and they, they haven't been super consistent. I've gone through a couple different services, but, um, I, I I've, I've been appreciative of learning about pool maintenance, I guess. Um, come your own pool boy. Huh? Yeah. Yeah. So now this is not the, yeah, go ahead. Go. No, no, go ahead. I was just gonna say, this is not the, uh, only place that you have now or, uh, do you even still have, have that, that home?
Speaker 1 00:21:28 Yes. I, I, I still live in there actually. So, so my wife now lives in here with me and we're actually, um, trying to fix up the kitchen and we're trying, we're gonna repaint all the walls and we're gonna try to refin and pull some cash out to hopefully put into some other investment properties. Do you have other properties right now? Yes. So I have, um, so about, so, so yeah, I started house hacking 2017 mm-hmm <affirmative> and oh, oh, another I guess, huge knock on effect of yeah. House hacking is you start learning about real estate more. And I, I became very interested, a lot of podcasts. I started listening to the bigger pockets podcast, like religiously. Yep. And so that gave me a lot of ideas on how to parlay this experience into more. So I ended up buying three, three, um, homes in Michigan by where I grew up in 2018 from a couple go in one year in one year, all, all from a couple going through a divorce.
Speaker 1 00:22:33 And that was basically a strategy that I had heard on bigger pockets, Uhhuh <affirmative> like I was calling property managers, just, just cold calling and seeing if any of their clients were looking to get rid of their properties for any reason. And that's kind of how I got those three. And then this year, uh, I, I actually decided it made, I mean, even with the 10% penalty on a 401k surrender, I surrendered one of my 401ks to buy a seven unit also in Michigan mm-hmm <affirmative>. And recently about two months ago, we bought a short term rental in Myrtle beach, South Carolina mm-hmm <affirmative>. Okay. So, um, Myrtle beach being a, uh, historically, uh, traditionally, historically whatever, a, uh, vacation or a tourist destination in the area, right? Yep. Yeah. I kind of thought it would be good to diversify a little bit a white cuz.
Speaker 1 00:23:29 I mean, miss Michigan, the, um, it seems the cash flow's fairly good right now, but I don't think it's gonna appreciate a lot. And I was also slightly worried about, um, I had put some of the 10, I mean it's like good and bad to lock in some of the tenants. So I put them on two year leases actually. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, just to lock 'em in, but if there is like real inflation and those rents don't keep up, that could be an issue. And that's kind of what I was thinking with, um, like maybe diversifying a little bit into a short term rental and that way, uh, well, if the, the market can <affirmative> demand a higher rate for a particular night, then we'll, we'll get a higher rate. You can adjust that pretty quickly. Yeah. Yeah. What, uh, and, and do you get to enjoy that, uh, home very often cuz you're in Charlotte, that's a two, two hour, three hour drive or yeah, it's it's three hours and it, yeah, the great thing it's the, this Myrtle beach property is incredibly seasonal.
Speaker 1 00:24:28 The high seasons, like April to September. So, um, we, we plan, we we've used it once since we got it. Um, and since it's the down season, uh, it's not really a problem. It, it, it doesn't really rent that much in these, uh, cold months, so we will be able to enjoy it a little bit. All right. What's what was your big concern about getting a, uh, a short term rental? I mean, what were, what were your concern before you got it and has it been justified? Um, so it's, I, I think times will still tell, but, um, I, I think the, so this was in a, it's called they call 'em condo hotels. I'd also never heard of this term. It looks like a hotel from the outside and, um, my wife and I stayed at another condo hotel. And when we got to the check-in they're like, are you checking in for a hotel or a condo Uhhuh?
Speaker 1 00:25:22 <affirmative> it, it, it got me thinking. And then we started looking at these other condo hotels that had units for sale, and this was totally new to me. I'd never heard of structure like this, but, but they have HOAs. So that was, I guess, a worry. Um, and so I, I mean, I looked into some of the reports they gave us, but hon I honestly, I might have wanted to do a little more due diligence, but they were selling so fast. Yeah. Uh, we had to make a decision. Did you get into a, a brand new one or it's no, no, it's not, it's not, not brand new. Okay. Um, but, um, yeah, it's, uh, it it's it's right downtown and seemed like a great location. And I mean, we saw the rent rolls from the last couple years. And so we did some due diligence net.
Speaker 1 00:26:08 I mean, another thing was, um, I guess, uh, now this property manager takes a huge cut it's like they, they get 40% now. They also do a lot more work than my property managers in Michigan that are basically collecting rent. Mm-hmm <affirmative> fixing the occasional toilet or, well, whatever, but yeah, I mean, this is like a full on, I mean, they're cleaning it after every guest and so it's a lot more work. So I, I kind of got that, but, um, it's a little D than a, than a, uh, like an Airbnb or a VRBO where you, um, you have to hire your own clean cleaners or do your, do the cleaning yourself, right? Yeah. And that was actually the, I actually looked into setting up an Airbnb in Charlotte and the, the, the stumbling block I kept getting was, I, I couldn't find cleaners with flexible schedules.
Speaker 1 00:27:01 Mm-hmm <affirmative> so I would, I would, it seemed like I almost needed many units to be able to pull it off. Like, I'd almost need my own cleaning crew. Right. Um, so that, that was kind of, I mean, maybe now it, it would be a little different if I looked at it, but, um, at the time it, it, it seemed like it was a headache to set up well over the past year or so, and probably into the near future. Are you, that sounds like you're experiencing what many employers are experiencing just trouble getting yeah. Yeah. Somebody to, to do the work for you that's, uh, available at the time you want 'em. Yeah. What, uh, so you tech, you, you mentioned that you took a loan for your first, um, your first, the financial first home or to the, for the down payment out of your 401k.
Speaker 1 00:27:50 Yep. I don't know if a lot of people are, are familiar with that, or how, uh, is that just for 401ks or IRAs as well? Or do you know much about that? How does what's the <crosstalk>? I do not personally have an IRA, so I don't, I don't wanna say something that's wrong, but I, I feel like you can, you're always allowed to borrow against the principle that you put in, but don't quote me on that. A 401k, um, you can borrow, I think the max is like, if you had a, I think it's like half of what is in your 401k or up to a max, a 50,000 thousand also. I'm I read that too. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not a hundred percent sure on that, but I think that's what I saw last I checked and then you have to pay it back to yourself.
Speaker 1 00:28:34 I mean, futures, future self with interest. Yep, yep. Yeah. It was like 5% interest going back into the 401k, but at least you're paying yourself interest. Yeah. So how did that, what did you do for, or your second when you started, uh, when you bought the, uh, the places up in Michigan? So that, that was, that was a very unique experience. And I probably would've given up, had I not been listening to bigger pockets so much, um, because they talk about all these different ways to finance deals and one of them is owner financing or they seller financing. And cuz I originally looked at some traditional banks and they said, well, I mean, you don't really have a track record. Um, we, we don't really feel comfortable lending you money at this time. Right. And so I, I basically asked the realtor, well, can you just ask the owners if, if they would finance it for me and I could give them a pretty big, um, portion of the amount, but they would finance the rest and I'd give 'em a higher interest rate and they, they agreed to do that.
Speaker 1 00:29:39 So that's how I got into that deal. Nice. So I, you know, I, I'm going back into your trip to Europe where you said you started getting into a lot of reading mm-hmm <affirmative> and podcast. And so it, it really, that sounds like it really had a, a, a, it really changed the trajectory of your, uh, of your professional life and your personal life mean? Yeah, absolutely. I, I, sometimes I sometimes like, uh, almost worried, like had I not been fired? What, what, where would I be? I, because I kind of just felt like I was at the time, it felt like I was going through the motions a little bit. Like I wasn't fully awake to, I, I didn't, I wasn't really living intentionally, I guess mm-hmm <affirmative> <affirmative> so you, you, you're now fully employed you're you're full-time employed again. Yep. So I would imagine a question that a lot of us have is how does, how does that work as far as your time you're working eight to five, nine to five, whatever, and then you've got these homes.
Speaker 1 00:30:38 How often do you have to work, uh, to, to be available as a, as a landlord? Um, so, so, well, the cool thing about long distance real estate is I guess you're forced to set up systems. So I have, I have some property managers that manage the Michigan properties and they take 10% of the gross rents mm-hmm <affirmative> and they give mean invoice every month with basically the net rents mm-hmm <affirmative> um, in terms of my work, I'd say actually right now is about the most work I do. I do not have a bookkeeper. So I, I do have to input all the rents and expenses, um, that I, that I'm gonna need to send over for taxes tax time. Yeah. So I I'd say right now was kind of the most work that I have to do. I, I do not really communicate with any of the tenants that's the job or the, the duty of the property manager.
Speaker 1 00:31:33 So I I'm kind of I've luckily removed myself kind of from the system, but during tax season, it seems to be my busy time. Right. Right. Well, as, as we, uh, approached the end of our conversation, which I've really enjoyed and appreciated Jack, uh, um, great, great insight into, into your own experience that we can all look at, uh, can consider for our own. What would you, uh, we probably have some listeners that have gone through or are going through or about to go through unemployment. They think that they're, uh, about to lose their job or have lost their job. What's one thing that you would tell your past self, uh, either, uh, to, to do differently or to confirm, Hey, do this again. What is it, what is it that you would tell somebody that is, is feeling like, you know, this a really bad thing to lose my job?
Speaker 1 00:32:28 Um, yeah, it's, it's obviously very tough. Um, and it's easier said than done to kind of stay calm and try to, as much as you can have a long term view. And I, I think, I think one thing that I really started appreciating when I lost my job and I started reading a lot, was a lot of people overestimate how much influence they can have in other people's life, but underestimate how much influence they can have in their own own life. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And if you just start taking a little more responsibility, you really can change your life if, if you do devote some time to it. Right. Uh, thank you. And what, what is, uh, do you have a, a, a practical piece of advice or step that, uh, you would recommend for people to, to find? I mean, yeah. I mean, one thing that really helped me with my finances was just tracking it because there's that saying whatever gets measured gets managed mm-hmm <affirmative> and I think, well, one thing I do is every 10 days, I sit down and record basically my personal balance sheet, so assets and liabilities, and, uh, um, you can use some of those account aggregators, like personal finance or mint mm-hmm <affirmative>, um, are, are all good.
Speaker 1 00:33:48 And I, I think that helps a lot cuz um, I, I think, and, and this is something like Robert Kiosaki talks a lot about in his books, um, that, that people pay a little bit too much attention to how much money they're making and not how much they're keeping. Right. And one way to look at that is your balance sheet. How is your balance sheet progressing over time? Yeah. Good. Yeah. It's uh, I I've, I've used, uh, something similar in my classes. It's not how much you make it's how much you you keep. Yep. Um, okay. Cause you could spend every penny of any income in this country. Yep. <laugh> uh, so Jack, how can, uh, if, if, uh, listeners wanted to reach out to you or, uh, uh, find you online, where could they do that? So I, I have a blog where I actually show my personal balance sheet.
Speaker 1 00:34:41 That's at fire to fire.com. And then if you wanna shoot me a line just on LinkedIn, I'm the only Jack all while on there. So those are the two best places to find me. All right. I'll definitely put those in the show links do, uh, uh, take advantage of those talking to my listeners here. Okay. Well Jack, thank you for being with us today. I appreciate your time and, and the story that you've shared. Thanks so much, Todd, you bet, and to our listeners. Thank you for joining us. Uh, please do, uh, check out our
[email protected] slash podcast subscribe so that you can be notified each time. Uh, one of these, uh, episodes comes out typically Monday mornings and until the next time,
Speaker 2 00:35:23 Please stay money fit and stay.
